Re: An atheist professor & his student

"Welsh Dog" <welshdog@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message 
news:0sh3f41hvl7jqccgkbogf3uiqv4djk5hrs@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Sun, 12 Oct 2008 00:42:07 -0500, Louis Epstein <le@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>>Welsh Dog <welshdog@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>>: On Sat, 11 Oct 2008 00:56:33 -0500, Louis Epstein <le@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>>:>Toon <toon@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>>:>: On Thu, 9 Oct 2008 07:51:35 -0500, "BubblyBabs"
<ng@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>

>
>>:>:>> : There is nodirect evidence to sup****t god.  There is no direct
>>:>:>> : evidence to sup****t the universe came into being without god.
>
>>:>:>> There is no possibility of there being a Universe unless
>>:>:>> there were a God to cause it.
>
>>:>:>Why does there need to be a "God" to cause it?  It's just something 
>>that
>>:>:>happened...  Maybe it's as some speculate - the universe will stop 
>>expanding
>>:>:>and will collapse in on itself and the process will start over 
>>again...
>>:>:>Maybe next time there won't be any lifeforms at all on any of the 
>>planets
>>:>:>that form...  But there doesn't need to be a god for this to
occur...
>
>>:>: I think the universe's creation created god, as a way to help run
it.
>
>>:>No...God is by definition uniquely uncreated.
>
>>: If 'god' can be uniquely uncreated... why shouldn't the universe??
>
>>Only one entity can be uniquely uncreated
>>and constitute the explanation for the
>>existence of all others.
>
>>Having this attribute makes that entity God.
>
>>So are you saying the Universe IS God?
>
> Can you prove it isn't?


Hmm, the problem with this sort of thing is that first you need to agree
on 
a definition for what god is, and isn't. I doubt such an agreement will be

easy or quickly reached!


>>Because there MUST be a God for there to be ANYTHING.
>
> Depends on your perspective! If, as you claim, 'god' was uniquely
> created then there is no reason why the universe couldn't have been
> uniquely created instead *not* as well!
>
> Besides... it is quite within the bounds of logical possibility for a
> god to have created this universe with its physical laws and yet,
> being outside those laws itself, share existence with a multitude of
> other beings we'd consider to be gods... tho maybe not the god of our
> universe!!
>
> Welshdog


Descartes considered a range of options to explain his apparent existence,

deconstructing his perceptions of reality step by step, proposing and 
eliminating alternatives to prove he was real in his own right rather than

someone else's idea or artifact, until he ended up with "cogito ergo sum":
I 
think therefore I am.

You need to something more along those lines to prove god's existence: the

first statement above "because there MUST be..." is merely an unsup****ted 
assertion. You presumably believe it's true because you can't conceive of
an 
alternative, but that doesn't prove it at all.

DaveD