Hybrid Angel said the following on 3/3/2008 10:53 AM:
> Islam, borne by an angel of HaShem,
Sorry, but no.
Islam was formed by a man named Muhammad. Back before the 600s, Arabs
were a loosely connected polytheists. In 570, a boy named Muhammad was
born. His parents died and he stayed with his uncle, then worked as a
merchant and married at age 26. He grew discontent with his life in
Mecca and retreated to some caves for meditation and reflection.
While meditating, Muhammad comes up with the idea of preaching
monotheism similar to Christianity, which he does. He was met with
hostility from the polytheistic tribes in Mecca and he had to escape
persecution. Slowly, he begins to unite the conflicting tribes and, by
630, had gathered enough followers to conquer Mecca. Then he fell ill
and died.
In Islam, Muhammad shares prophet status with Adam, Noah, Moses,
Abraham, David and Jesus.
I'm still waiting for evidence of this "borne by an angel of HaShem"
claim that you made.
> and Israel, borne of HaShem Himself....
This, too, is not shown to be true.
Israel was a part of Egypt and this area was frequently at war with the
various Semitic and Hurrian tribes. The name "Israel" came from Jacob
who had his named changed to Yisra'el...or Israel...a after he fought a
man from night to morning. Jacob/Israel could not defeat the man and
the man could not defeat him.
The Bible is VERY vague on the identity of the man Jacob/Israel fought
with. Jacob/Israel responded, after he limped home, that he had "seen
the face of God and lived."
Later, Jacob's son, Joseph, was sold by Jacob's brothers to Egyptian
slaveholders...which would eventually lead to the slaves being led out
of Egypt and to the land of Canaan, forming the land of Israel of today.
The man who "wrestled with God/angels" had nothing to do with it
except for bearing a son who would eventually help to lead the Jews out
of Egypt.
> REALITY...straight from the Torah......
Reality is NOT what you're going to get from the Torah.
>
> For Christ Jesus' sake, Bob....they DO eXist....don't they......?
Yes, they do exist.
>
> Do you have another origin for the two nations......?
Yes. Two men forming two different nations. No evidence of these
"angels" or "gods" you speak of.
--
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* DanielSan -- alt.atheism #2226 *
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* "I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act *
* of the whole American people which declared that *
* their legislature should make no law respecting *
* an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the *
* free exercise thereof, thus building a wall of *
* separation between church and state." *
* --Thomas Jefferson, 1802 *
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