Re: Stats Gone Wild! Plus Triple-Play Bonus

On 16 May 2008 13:04:52 GMT, Opus the Penguin
<opusthepenguin+usenet@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:

>M C Hamster (davolson@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
) wrote:
>
>> On 15 May 2008 23:24:01 -0500, M C Hamster
>> <davolson@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>> 
>>>On 15 May 2008 22:43:14 GMT, Opus the Penguin
>>><opusthepenguin+usenet@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Greg Goss (gossg@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
) wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Bob Ward <bobward@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>>On 15 May 2008 00:29:01 -0500, M C Hamster
>>>>>><davolson@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Since we're talking random simulations of baseball seasons,
>>>>>>>here's an old column that I posted here, that statistically
>>>>>>>quantified the amazing futility of the Cubs (and White Sox). 
>>>>>>>It is now outdated, since the White Sox won in 2005.  But the
>>>>>>>Cubs odds still basically hold, and in fact are even greater
>>>>>>>now, 5 years hence. 
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>************
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Shouldn't that read "five years later"?  To me, five years
>>>>>>hence means five years from now, in the future.*See #2
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Definition of Hence
>>>>>>Pronunciation: hens 
>>>>>>adv. 1. From this place; away.
>>>>>>Arise, let us go hence.
>>>>>>- John xiv. 31.
>>>>>>I will send thee far hence unto the Gentiles.
>>>>>>- Acts xxii. 21. 
>>>>>> 2. From this time; in the future; as, a week hence. 
>>>>>> 3. From this reason; therefore; - as an inference or
>>>>>> deduction. 
>>>>>>Hence, perhaps, it is, that Solomon calls the fear of the Lord
>>>>>>the beginning of wisdom.
>>>>>>- Tillotson. 
>>>>>> 4. From this source or origin.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I would have agreed with you until you tried to cite evidence. 
>>>>> MC described a point in time, then described another point in
>>>>> time five years "from this time".
>>>>
>>>>He described a point five years "from THAT time". "This" time is
>>>>the one we're in right now. If it weren't archaic, he could have
>>>>said "Five years thence." But "five years hence" means "five
>>>>years from now."
>>>
>>>No it doesn't, not necessarily and not according to the dictionary
>>>definition of the word "hence".  It means five years from "this
>>>time". In my sentence, "this time" represents the date the column
>>>was written.   It's entirely appropriate for me to refer to the
>>>time the column was written as "this time".
>>>
>>>I can completely correctly say "Napoleon was defeated at Waterloo.
>>>THIS represents the end of the Napoleonic era."  I do not have to
>>>say "THAT represents the end of the Napoleonic era".   Having set
>>>up that I'm talking about past events, but using present
>>>references because it's the discussion that we're having that I'm
>>>referring to, not the event itself, I can then say "Five years
>>>hence, Napoleon was exiled to Elba."  
>>>
>>>Produce for me a direct refutation of this, from a trusted and
>>>respected source, and I'll consider it.  But my usage is
>>>completely consistent with the dictionary defintions that have
>>>been posted here. 
>> 
>> If you are correct, then it would be impossible to ever have a
>> sentence read something like "According to the judge's ruling, the
>> defendent henceforth was ordered to re****t for parole twice a
>> year". That is, you could never have a past tense verb following
>> "henceforth".  If you Google, as I just did, you'll see a vast
>> number of cases of sentences like that.  
>> 
>> E.g., "Religious communities or branches that had their
>> headquarters outside the country, such as the Jesuit and
>> Franciscan orders, were henceforth ordered to..."  
>> 
>> or  "Stripped of its historic mission and most of its military
>> functions, the Order henceforth limited itself to providing a
>> regiment for the service of the...."
>> 
>> So certainly in common vernacular is the use of hence, or
>> henceforth, as representing "from a given time forward", without
>> that given time necessarily being today, but some specified time
>> in the past. 
>> 
>
>If language is modular and "henceforth" means exactly what you would 
>expect from combining the words "hence" and "forth," I'd take your 
>point. I don't recall ever seeing "hence" used the way you claim. A 
>direct citation of that would be interesting to me.

So if I had said "henceforth" rather than simply "hence", that would
have been OK?  I believe that I use the two as completely
interchangeable.  M-W appears to list that as archaic usage, though,
so I'm beginning to cave and admit, yet again, my shaky grasp of the
language.  

What alternatives would I have for the use of hence in the context I
placed it in?  "Later" is just far, far too mundane.  I need a nice
word like "hence".

"Five years on..."
"Five years later..."

I need a nice word, even if made up, like, um, "Five years passtime".
"Five years henceforth" would do nicely, if that's OK even if "hence"
is not.  



-- 
M C Hamster  "Big Wheel Keep on Turning" -- Creedence Clearwater Revival